Another great race. Thank you to all that put it on. Also, big ups to those who cheered and heckled me on. Apparently taking 2 years off the bikes means I’m not in cross shape anymore.
Camelback Guy was a no-show. That was Greg Teiber. He was a fixture in the 4Bs a few years ago and is back racing again. Says he’s gonna race DRW. Watch that single track, Irish, it bites.
Aww, I was hoping to give Camelback Guy some positive reinforcement after the debacle at Caldwell. That dude needs to see that, for the most part, we’d rather hand him a beer than make fun of him. I hope he comes back.
He has been spotted working hard at the Main Street Bicycles Sasquatch Squadron cross practices once or twice. If I see him again I will pass on the CCC love and encourage him to come back and race with us.
Race was okay yesterday, minus the amount of people that were being pulled. I find it a bit ridiculous to be pulled at 35 mins in a 60 min race when being on the lead lap. Was I going to be lapped? Yes eventually but pulling paying riders half way through a race when they are on the lead lap is uncalled for and makes me rethink driving to some of the further away events. I believe 19 people were allowed to finish out of 62 starters in the mens 123 race. I understand pulling lapped riders but when only a small handful of leaders are lapping people I feel there could be less pulling. A few guys I talked to got pulled at 5 laps to go. That was 20 something minutes into a 60 min raced. Overall not pleased with the the result of yesterday and I know a lot of others that weren’t as well. I love the CCC races but that was a waste of my day.
Coming from a motorsports background myself, I feel lapped riders are part of the race, and sometimes affect the outcome. I think that’s just good racing. This isn’t State or Nats, it’s a local race, and navigating lappers should be part of it. I think the guys at the front of a 1/2/3 race should be able to handily pass pretty much anybody out there at any time with some cooperation. Though I was glad to be pulled before I really died out there on the last lap, the race should have continued to the end for everybody.
I think you make a really good point. Lapped riders is a part of racing, across all domains–especially local amateur races.
In regards to Justin’s comment below. If the purpose of pulling is to make the judge’s time easier (despite having finish line technology) then what do we pay the USAC for? Their mission is to support the growth of cycling–not restrict it. Bureaucracy is best left for the government, not for a Sunday afternoon hobby.
i dunno man, i’ve seen enough really angry dudes in race cars waving their hands through the net because someone won’t get off the racing line. i understand if you just paid $700 in entry for an SCCA event, you get your track time. but this is amateur bike racing. i’m more than happy to get pulled if the leaders are running up my behind. i’ve seen a race won or lost on lapped traffic on more than a few occasions.
I’ve seen it too, and they are probably angry because they couldn’t manage to pass a lapper successfully more so than any other reason. I just think it would be a pretty boring race with only a handful of riders than can stay on the lead lap. It’s hard for spectators to get a feel for how fast the lead riders are without some perspective also. In my opinion, races won or lost via negotiating lapped riders is part of the racing experience and part of being a successful racer. We could always just do a time trial for lap times to completely eliminate any and all external factors determining a race outcome. That would be fun. 🙂
I and a few others in the Cat 3 race also echo your frustration. They started pulling around 60th going into the last lap, so the leader would have no traffic anyways. That was at about 35min, I rode the last lap hard anyways and still pulled in before 45min.
I get there is going to be a USAC rule for every complaint someone is going to have, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say most people racing the CCC are doing it for FUN. Getting pulled and wasting time and money is NOT fun. Especially when 40% of the pack gets pulled and the venue is a hike to get to.
I understand that it’s easy to monday-morning-quarterback what should, and shouldn’t be done. I can’t imagine the effort it takes to organize these events, especially with the turnout so far this year. But with that said, the CCC wouldn’t be anything without the people who come out to race and expect to have a fun time doing just that—racing.
I think better discretion can be used in the future to support the reason why this series continues to grow, and not just application of USAC rules because they simply exist. I’m not saying ignore the rules; and in this case, not pull anyone. But I feel in my opinion it was overdone this race, despite the course length.
mtbkr627, I feel for you. However, as the second place finisher in that race I can assure you that we ran into lapped traffic, which (while not changing the standings) got me a few more seconds on third. I managed to pass one right before the singletrack, while Brian (who took third) ended up having to pass the same rider in the middle of the singletrack.
As for the solution, given that all categories /should/ be treated equally I think pulling riders is the best idea. That being said, some leniency in the 4/5 and maybe even 3s (on par with the handup leniency shown to 4/5s) would help.
Andrew, I appreciate your input. I don’t want to make it seem that I think pulling riders is uncalled for or USAC rules are pointless. I just felt it was overly used last weekend. Having pulled nearly 40% of Cat3 and over 60% of 1/2/3 seemed a bit much.
It’s done and over with, however, so I guess the only thing to do is to get faster!
Karson I agree, anyone should contact the USAC regarding the decision to pull so early at Hopkins if they had an issue with it Sunday. But complaining, venting, or whatever one wants to call it is not pointless here either.
The rule in question is a joint decision between the race director and USAC chief judge. If you understand the inherent nature of many governing bodies, it’s that small voices often go unheard. (Not a bad thing, its just the way they function). Unlike the CCC, whose organizers do a good job of at least acknowledging issues that many people may have had at an event.
I’m not trying to minimize the effort of the all the volunteers, the CCC, or the USAC judges that choose to come spend their Sunday afternoons with us. Nor am I trying to minimize the amount of fun I still had despite the set back. But many people that did fall victim to such a large “pull” yesterday are disappointed to a varying extent, and trying to minimize that frustration does not help either.
The intent is to pull riders BEFORE they are lapped and possible course congestion for the leaders. With the use of the finish line services, the refs have an easier time establishing gaps between the leaders and the pack.
USAC 5g1(b)
The Chief Referee may, after consulting with the Race Director, impose the 80% rule. Under this rule, riders whose time gap to the race leader is at least 80% of the race leader‟s time for the first lap will be pulled by the officials unless it is the final lap. The number of 80% is merely an approximation based on a typical course; the intent is that all riders should be pulled before they are lapped.
I completely understand the ruling towards pulling. Just think that there could be exceptions made when there are only a few riders fast enough to lap other riders. Especially in a smaller field like the 123 race. It’s not like the leaders were contending with 100 other riders to pass. It is what it is.
This course is usually a short course especially compared to most of the others (even more so without any barriers). This resulted in pulling happening earlier than other races. Going forward it usually won’t happen as quickly, like on a longer course such as Dan Ryan Woods.
That said, the preference should always go to the riders racing FTW and not us at the back. If you are being lapped at ~40 minutes then maybe pick a different category.
Agreed. I believe the biggest problem was the short not technical course. I’ll stick with this category thanks. The thing is that I wasn’t getting lapped at 40mins. Hence why I posted in the first place. I’ll see you folks at DRW!
thanks everyone for coming out!!! as the ground firmed up, the laps started to get REALLY FAST! luckily our great USAC officials and Nikki and Brenda with One2Go were able to keep up easily. i hope everyone had a good time!
I really enjoyed the carving and #flowness of the track. Thank you for starting the M35+ on time (with time to spare) and making it a smooth day at the races.
Maybe there should be another complaint thread each week so that the awesome pics/vids/reports (does anybody write race reports anymore?) don’t get lost among the “suggestions”.
If not, I’ve already got next week covered: The short, bunny-hop barriers are dangerous. The single-track section is too rutted/overgrown/dangerous. The hill is too steep. I can’t believe the officials did/did not pull many people. And, the masters are getting screwed because [insert whatever reason is making my fellow masters grumpy at the moment].
Pretty cool how so many vids are getting posted. I watch almost every one of them. Thanks to everybody letting me race vicariously through your gopro.
Howdy all, I couldn’t race so I took a ton of pictures once I was handed the camera. I don’t edit them at all, just try and delete the fuzzy ones. I tried to get all the Cat4/5 folks, as they need photo love too. They are on Facebook here http://goo.gl/Lwv6g6
Always value in learning from history. This series improves with every event. Course design, category designations, time slots, scoring, to name a few…..
The discussion two years ago at Hopkins was riders feeling they were pulled to quickly. I think with the great work of all the race directors, the USAC officials, and now One2GO Event Services all working together, there is clear quality with on time starts and maximum race time for everybody.
Always remember, especially with the longer drive to Dekalb for many, that racing a second time is usually an option for most riders.
Another excellent day of cyclocross!!!
here are a handful of random weird photos from Men’s 3, Women’s 4 and Junior 9-14
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77996110@N05/sets/72157648411532092/
oh, and there are some Women’s 1/2/3 in there, too
Cheers!
258 Masters 35+ photos. The same photos are in 2 places for convenience.
On Facebook: Smaller size & watermarked to share and like on Facebook http://on.fb.me/1nWg4Cj
On Jayloo: Full resolution/non-watermarked photos for free download and to purchase prints at http://bit.ly/1pugXwC
More on their way.
Great photos again, Jason!
All of the photos are posted on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jayloophotography.
Still uploading the hi-res photos to http://www.jayloo.com/Sports-Photography/2014-Hopkins-Park-ChiCrossCup. Internet connection is choking on uploading 2,500 large photos.
Another great race. Thank you to all that put it on. Also, big ups to those who cheered and heckled me on. Apparently taking 2 years off the bikes means I’m not in cross shape anymore.
Fantastic race, everyone. That course sucked in the best possible way.
Did I spy Camelback Guy again today, wearing an Ireland jersey? Either way, dude just didn’t give up. Props to him, whoever he was.
Camelback Guy was a no-show. That was Greg Teiber. He was a fixture in the 4Bs a few years ago and is back racing again. Says he’s gonna race DRW. Watch that single track, Irish, it bites.
Aww, I was hoping to give Camelback Guy some positive reinforcement after the debacle at Caldwell. That dude needs to see that, for the most part, we’d rather hand him a beer than make fun of him. I hope he comes back.
He has been spotted working hard at the Main Street Bicycles Sasquatch Squadron cross practices once or twice. If I see him again I will pass on the CCC love and encourage him to come back and race with us.
Tell him that if he comes back, he has friends at Team Intent. We have his (Camel)back!
The STAY RAD guys always got his back too! F-those other dudes.
Damn right. I think that applies to most of the folks at these races.
By the way, y’all’s kits rule.
Had a blast chasing everyone around as usual. Photos of everyone from all the races are uploading here: http://www.digitalcane.net/Cyclocross
Enjoy!
~Matt
Cat 3 start – Crash http://youtu.be/dpAB3utRrEI
oh man that was brutal! Way to get back on the horse Andre. Hope you/your bike did not suffer any damage . . .
Masters 35+ – always fun. http://youtu.be/sgi-qaMQak0
thanks Omar!! always stoked to see your videos on monday 🙂
Masters 35+ photos: http://bit.ly/1vIIfFG
Race was okay yesterday, minus the amount of people that were being pulled. I find it a bit ridiculous to be pulled at 35 mins in a 60 min race when being on the lead lap. Was I going to be lapped? Yes eventually but pulling paying riders half way through a race when they are on the lead lap is uncalled for and makes me rethink driving to some of the further away events. I believe 19 people were allowed to finish out of 62 starters in the mens 123 race. I understand pulling lapped riders but when only a small handful of leaders are lapping people I feel there could be less pulling. A few guys I talked to got pulled at 5 laps to go. That was 20 something minutes into a 60 min raced. Overall not pleased with the the result of yesterday and I know a lot of others that weren’t as well. I love the CCC races but that was a waste of my day.
Coming from a motorsports background myself, I feel lapped riders are part of the race, and sometimes affect the outcome. I think that’s just good racing. This isn’t State or Nats, it’s a local race, and navigating lappers should be part of it. I think the guys at the front of a 1/2/3 race should be able to handily pass pretty much anybody out there at any time with some cooperation. Though I was glad to be pulled before I really died out there on the last lap, the race should have continued to the end for everybody.
I think you make a really good point. Lapped riders is a part of racing, across all domains–especially local amateur races.
In regards to Justin’s comment below. If the purpose of pulling is to make the judge’s time easier (despite having finish line technology) then what do we pay the USAC for? Their mission is to support the growth of cycling–not restrict it. Bureaucracy is best left for the government, not for a Sunday afternoon hobby.
i dunno man, i’ve seen enough really angry dudes in race cars waving their hands through the net because someone won’t get off the racing line. i understand if you just paid $700 in entry for an SCCA event, you get your track time. but this is amateur bike racing. i’m more than happy to get pulled if the leaders are running up my behind. i’ve seen a race won or lost on lapped traffic on more than a few occasions.
I’ve seen it too, and they are probably angry because they couldn’t manage to pass a lapper successfully more so than any other reason. I just think it would be a pretty boring race with only a handful of riders than can stay on the lead lap. It’s hard for spectators to get a feel for how fast the lead riders are without some perspective also. In my opinion, races won or lost via negotiating lapped riders is part of the racing experience and part of being a successful racer. We could always just do a time trial for lap times to completely eliminate any and all external factors determining a race outcome. That would be fun. 🙂
I and a few others in the Cat 3 race also echo your frustration. They started pulling around 60th going into the last lap, so the leader would have no traffic anyways. That was at about 35min, I rode the last lap hard anyways and still pulled in before 45min.
I get there is going to be a USAC rule for every complaint someone is going to have, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say most people racing the CCC are doing it for FUN. Getting pulled and wasting time and money is NOT fun. Especially when 40% of the pack gets pulled and the venue is a hike to get to.
I understand that it’s easy to monday-morning-quarterback what should, and shouldn’t be done. I can’t imagine the effort it takes to organize these events, especially with the turnout so far this year. But with that said, the CCC wouldn’t be anything without the people who come out to race and expect to have a fun time doing just that—racing.
I think better discretion can be used in the future to support the reason why this series continues to grow, and not just application of USAC rules because they simply exist. I’m not saying ignore the rules; and in this case, not pull anyone. But I feel in my opinion it was overdone this race, despite the course length.
mtbkr627, I feel for you. However, as the second place finisher in that race I can assure you that we ran into lapped traffic, which (while not changing the standings) got me a few more seconds on third. I managed to pass one right before the singletrack, while Brian (who took third) ended up having to pass the same rider in the middle of the singletrack.
As for the solution, given that all categories /should/ be treated equally I think pulling riders is the best idea. That being said, some leniency in the 4/5 and maybe even 3s (on par with the handup leniency shown to 4/5s) would help.
Andrew, I appreciate your input. I don’t want to make it seem that I think pulling riders is uncalled for or USAC rules are pointless. I just felt it was overly used last weekend. Having pulled nearly 40% of Cat3 and over 60% of 1/2/3 seemed a bit much.
It’s done and over with, however, so I guess the only thing to do is to get faster!
If you have a problem with USAC rules in a USAC sanctioned race, take it up with the USAC. You’re not helping by complaining here. . .
Karson I agree, anyone should contact the USAC regarding the decision to pull so early at Hopkins if they had an issue with it Sunday. But complaining, venting, or whatever one wants to call it is not pointless here either.
The rule in question is a joint decision between the race director and USAC chief judge. If you understand the inherent nature of many governing bodies, it’s that small voices often go unheard. (Not a bad thing, its just the way they function). Unlike the CCC, whose organizers do a good job of at least acknowledging issues that many people may have had at an event.
I’m not trying to minimize the effort of the all the volunteers, the CCC, or the USAC judges that choose to come spend their Sunday afternoons with us. Nor am I trying to minimize the amount of fun I still had despite the set back. But many people that did fall victim to such a large “pull” yesterday are disappointed to a varying extent, and trying to minimize that frustration does not help either.
The intent is to pull riders BEFORE they are lapped and possible course congestion for the leaders. With the use of the finish line services, the refs have an easier time establishing gaps between the leaders and the pack.
USAC 5g1(b)
The Chief Referee may, after consulting with the Race Director, impose the 80% rule. Under this rule, riders whose time gap to the race leader is at least 80% of the race leader‟s time for the first lap will be pulled by the officials unless it is the final lap. The number of 80% is merely an approximation based on a typical course; the intent is that all riders should be pulled before they are lapped.
I completely understand the ruling towards pulling. Just think that there could be exceptions made when there are only a few riders fast enough to lap other riders. Especially in a smaller field like the 123 race. It’s not like the leaders were contending with 100 other riders to pass. It is what it is.
This course is usually a short course especially compared to most of the others (even more so without any barriers). This resulted in pulling happening earlier than other races. Going forward it usually won’t happen as quickly, like on a longer course such as Dan Ryan Woods.
That said, the preference should always go to the riders racing FTW and not us at the back. If you are being lapped at ~40 minutes then maybe pick a different category.
Agreed. I believe the biggest problem was the short not technical course. I’ll stick with this category thanks. The thing is that I wasn’t getting lapped at 40mins. Hence why I posted in the first place. I’ll see you folks at DRW!
I feel you KP, I had warned my son David not to lap me or face dad’s wrath! . Stick with it brother.
Thanks for another fun race! A clip from the 1/2/3 race: http://www.rokcoaching.com/hopkinscx/
thanks everyone for coming out!!! as the ground firmed up, the laps started to get REALLY FAST! luckily our great USAC officials and Nikki and Brenda with One2Go were able to keep up easily. i hope everyone had a good time!
I really enjoyed the carving and #flowness of the track. Thank you for starting the M35+ on time (with time to spare) and making it a smooth day at the races.
I left a pair of HERITAGE warm-up pants near the start grid following the 123 race. Did anyone happen to pick those up? Appreciative.
Helmet camera from Men 45+
Part 1: http://youtu.be/1vmcK9g60Nc
Part 2: http://youtu.be/iB3VQBkLL0Q
Part 3: http://youtu.be/k25JdySwK5g
Part 4: http://youtu.be/GN_3IoZEHVo
Part 5: http://youtu.be/cbVrLD9UE-w
Maybe there should be another complaint thread each week so that the awesome pics/vids/reports (does anybody write race reports anymore?) don’t get lost among the “suggestions”.
If not, I’ve already got next week covered: The short, bunny-hop barriers are dangerous. The single-track section is too rutted/overgrown/dangerous. The hill is too steep. I can’t believe the officials did/did not pull many people. And, the masters are getting screwed because [insert whatever reason is making my fellow masters grumpy at the moment].
Pretty cool how so many vids are getting posted. I watch almost every one of them. Thanks to everybody letting me race vicariously through your gopro.
Hahahaha yes!
Haiduk = Troll
“You have to do the best with what God gave you.” – Mrs. Gump
Your Eye in the Sky reporting on Sundays congestion at the DeKalb overpass. https://vimeo.com/108213279
YESSS
Photos from Masters 45+ & 55+: http://bit.ly/Zbjk0F
525 photos of the Women’s 1/2/3, Men’s 1/2/3, Cat 4, and 5. Few videos of the flyover during Cat 5.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43181980@N05/sets/72157648480327222/
Photos from most of the days events are here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/7176754@N06/collections/72157648464797311/
If you’d like digital or physical copies of any of the photos please contact me at mtsedwi@gmail.com. Please give credit and ask to use them.
Photos from the Junior 15-18 and Single Speed races: http://bit.ly/1y3Jj9A
First 17 minutes of the 45+ race before camera died. Somewhat uneventful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNjkFAvPLQo
Howdy all, I couldn’t race so I took a ton of pictures once I was handed the camera. I don’t edit them at all, just try and delete the fuzzy ones. I tried to get all the Cat4/5 folks, as they need photo love too. They are on Facebook here http://goo.gl/Lwv6g6
Womens Cat 4 & Juniors 9-15 photos: http://bit.ly/ZfMcET
A few random shots http://bit.ly/1w3gKVk
Here’s video of the Womens Cat 4 Flyover – first lap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaYK71uXv00&feature=youtu.be (Plus a few of the first juniors)
Any one have lost and found stuff from Hopkins? Left a black fleece vest at the startline….
There was a fleece left at Hopkins. It should be at DRW, ask at Reg.
Always value in learning from history. This series improves with every event. Course design, category designations, time slots, scoring, to name a few…..
The discussion two years ago at Hopkins was riders feeling they were pulled to quickly. I think with the great work of all the race directors, the USAC officials, and now One2GO Event Services all working together, there is clear quality with on time starts and maximum race time for everybody.
Always remember, especially with the longer drive to Dekalb for many, that racing a second time is usually an option for most riders.
Long live the ChiCrossCup.